IESG issue 2 (Re: IESG issues with draft-ietf-nomcom-rfc2727bis-07)

[Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>]

Thanks, Avri!

One point of clarification on this point:
While creating a vacancy by moving someone from the IESG to the IAB may not 
seem realistic, we have had events in the past where an IESG member has 
been moved into another slot on the IESG, and the same nomcom has filled 
the resulting vacancy, which was not included as a possible vacancy in the 
original call for nominations.

So it's a real practical question.

--On 8. oktober 2003 11:53 +0900 Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> wrote:

> -----------------
> IESG Issue 2
> -----------------
> > raised by Margaret Wasserman:
>
> > > From section 3, subsection 8:
> > >      It is consistent with these rules for the announcements of a
> > >      resignation, of the existence of a mid-term vacancy, and of the
> > >      confirmed candidates to all occur at the same time as long as the
> > >      actual sequence of events that occurred did so in the following
> > >      order.
> > >
> > >      *  The nominating committee completes the advice and consent
> > >        process for the candidate already sitting on another body.
> > >
> > >      *  The newly confirmed candidate resigns from their current
> > >        position.
> > >
> > >      *  The body with the new mid-term vacancy requests that the
> > >        nominating committee fill the position.
> > >
> > >      *  The Executive Director of the IETF informs the nominating
> > >        committee of the mid-term vacancy.
> > >
> > >      *  The nominating committee acts on the request to fill the
> > >        mid-term vacancy
> >
> > This section indicates that a position may be vacated and filled
> > without the community being notified that a position is open.  IMO, no
> > position should be filled without public notice that the position is
> > open and a public call for nominations.
> >
> > I understand one shool of thought that says that this is okay for IAB
> > positions during the normal selection cycle.  Because IAB members
> > don't have separate responsibilities, it _might_ be okay to pick 6 IAB
> > members from a candidate pool for 5 open positions, for example.
> > However, even in this case, the community might want to know if a
> > person with a particular specialty/area of expertise was moving, so
> > that folks with that type of expertise could be nominated.
> >
> > This section would also be problematic for IESG positions.  This could
> > arise in any case where one IESG position is filled by a sitting IESG
> > member who is not up for renewal.  For example, consider a situation
> > where the IESG chair does not volunteer for another term and is
> > replaced by a sitting IESG member who is not up for renewal.  Even
> > though there are two ADs for most areas, the ADs often divide up the
> > area into logical sections, requiring different expertise for each
> > position.
> >
> > There are also issues with filling any postition according to this
> > section if it is applied to interim vacancies.  For example, the
> > nomcom should not be empowered to move an IAB member to the IESG to
> > fill and interim vacancy and replace the IAB member without making a
> > public call for nominations for the open IAB position.
>
> Background:
>
> The issue was first brought up
>      http://lists.elistx.com/archives/ietf-nomcom/200303/msg00020.html
>
> > > > > >> Insert in section 3 as paragraph 6 and renumber all subsequent
> > > > > paragraphs:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nomcom-caused Mid-term Vacancies:
> > > > >
> > > > >  From time to time the Nomcom may propose moving a serving Area
> > > > > Director or
> > > > > IAB member from one position to another. (E.g. moving a Transport
> > > > > AD to
> > > > > cover O&M). If the serving member is at the end of their normal
> > > > > term there
> > > > > is no change in procedures. Otherwise, this is treated as a mid-term
> > > > > vacancy and mid-term procedures are used with the following
> > > > > exceptions:
> > > > >
> > > > > a) If the vacancy will occur on the IAB due to a move from the IAB
> > > > > to the
> > > > > IESG, the Nomcom may, upon confirmation of nominee/IAB member,
> > > > > submit for
> > > > > confirmation as part of the normal slate of candidates another
> > > > > nominee to
> > > > > complete the term of the departing IAB member. If the Nomcom
> > > > > declines to
> > > > > nominate a replacement as part of the annual process, the IAB may,
> > > > > at any
> > > > > time after the confirmation of the departing member, ask the Nomcom
> > > > > to fill
> > > > > the slot using mid-term procedures.
> > > > >
> > > > > b) If the vacancy will occur on the IESG, either as a move to
> > > > > another IESG
> > > > > slot or as a move to the IAB, the Nomcom must use mid-term
> > > > > procedure rules.
> > > > > Most importantly, they must advertise the vacancy, and must
> > > > > consider all
> > > > > new candidates as equitably as any previously considered. The IESG
> > > > > chair is
> > > > > responsible for notifying the IETF Executive director of the
> > > > > vacancy and
> > > > > who in turn is responsible for asking the Nomcom select the
> > > > > replacement.
> > > > > The Nomcom is explicitly barred from proceeding without an explicit
> > > > > request
> > > > > from the IESG chair. The term of the nominee shall be for the
> > > > > remainder of
> > > > > the term of the vacated position."
>
>
> The recommended text change was never discussed on the list.
>
> The issue surrounding the 'poaching' issue was discussed but the
> discussion centered on the serialization described in 2727bis-07.
> However, none of the discussions were about the result of moving  someone
> from a non open seat on the IESG to fill an IAB slot and thus  having to
> fill an unannounced IESG slot.
>
> Questions:
>
> Does the document need to be explicit about treating the replacement of
> an IESG member in an non open chair differently the the replacement of
> an IAB member in a non open seat?
>
> Do full mid term replacement rules, including public announcement apply
> to this case?