Re: IESG issue 2 (Re: IESG issues with draft-ietf-nomcom-rfc2727bis-07)

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Harald and all,

 Hummm? Sounds/reads an awful lot like a "Club" or "Clique" instead
of an organization...

Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

> Thanks, Avri!
>
> One point of clarification on this point:
> While creating a vacancy by moving someone from the IESG to the IAB may not
> seem realistic, we have had events in the past where an IESG member has
> been moved into another slot on the IESG, and the same nomcom has filled
> the resulting vacancy, which was not included as a possible vacancy in the
> original call for nominations.
>
> So it's a real practical question.
>
> --On 8. oktober 2003 11:53 +0900 Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> wrote:
>
> > -----------------
> > IESG Issue 2
> > -----------------
> >> raised by Margaret Wasserman:
> >
> >>> From section 3, subsection 8:
> >>>      It is consistent with these rules for the announcements of a
> >>>      resignation, of the existence of a mid-term vacancy, and of the
> >>>      confirmed candidates to all occur at the same time as long as the
> >>>      actual sequence of events that occurred did so in the following
> >>>      order.
> >>>
> >>>      *  The nominating committee completes the advice and consent
> >>>        process for the candidate already sitting on another body.
> >>>
> >>>      *  The newly confirmed candidate resigns from their current
> >>>        position.
> >>>
> >>>      *  The body with the new mid-term vacancy requests that the
> >>>        nominating committee fill the position.
> >>>
> >>>      *  The Executive Director of the IETF informs the nominating
> >>>        committee of the mid-term vacancy.
> >>>
> >>>      *  The nominating committee acts on the request to fill the
> >>>        mid-term vacancy
> >>
> >> This section indicates that a position may be vacated and filled
> >> without the community being notified that a position is open.  IMO, no
> >> position should be filled without public notice that the position is
> >> open and a public call for nominations.
> >>
> >> I understand one shool of thought that says that this is okay for IAB
> >> positions during the normal selection cycle.  Because IAB members
> >> don't have separate responsibilities, it _might_ be okay to pick 6 IAB
> >> members from a candidate pool for 5 open positions, for example.
> >> However, even in this case, the community might want to know if a
> >> person with a particular specialty/area of expertise was moving, so
> >> that folks with that type of expertise could be nominated.
> >>
> >> This section would also be problematic for IESG positions.  This could
> >> arise in any case where one IESG position is filled by a sitting IESG
> >> member who is not up for renewal.  For example, consider a situation
> >> where the IESG chair does not volunteer for another term and is
> >> replaced by a sitting IESG member who is not up for renewal.  Even
> >> though there are two ADs for most areas, the ADs often divide up the
> >> area into logical sections, requiring different expertise for each
> >> position.
> >>
> >> There are also issues with filling any postition according to this
> >> section if it is applied to interim vacancies.  For example, the
> >> nomcom should not be empowered to move an IAB member to the IESG to
> >> fill and interim vacancy and replace the IAB member without making a
> >> public call for nominations for the open IAB position.
> >
> > Background:
> >
> > The issue was first brought up
> >      http://lists.elistx.com/archives/ietf-nomcom/200303/msg00020.html
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>> >> Insert in section 3 as paragraph 6 and renumber all subsequent
> >>>>> paragraphs:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Nomcom-caused Mid-term Vacancies:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  From time to time the Nomcom may propose moving a serving Area
> >>>>> Director or
> >>>>> IAB member from one position to another. (E.g. moving a Transport
> >>>>> AD to
> >>>>> cover O&M). If the serving member is at the end of their normal
> >>>>> term there
> >>>>> is no change in procedures. Otherwise, this is treated as a mid-term
> >>>>> vacancy and mid-term procedures are used with the following
> >>>>> exceptions:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a) If the vacancy will occur on the IAB due to a move from the IAB
> >>>>> to the
> >>>>> IESG, the Nomcom may, upon confirmation of nominee/IAB member,
> >>>>> submit for
> >>>>> confirmation as part of the normal slate of candidates another
> >>>>> nominee to
> >>>>> complete the term of the departing IAB member. If the Nomcom
> >>>>> declines to
> >>>>> nominate a replacement as part of the annual process, the IAB may,
> >>>>> at any
> >>>>> time after the confirmation of the departing member, ask the Nomcom
> >>>>> to fill
> >>>>> the slot using mid-term procedures.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> b) If the vacancy will occur on the IESG, either as a move to
> >>>>> another IESG
> >>>>> slot or as a move to the IAB, the Nomcom must use mid-term
> >>>>> procedure rules.
> >>>>> Most importantly, they must advertise the vacancy, and must
> >>>>> consider all
> >>>>> new candidates as equitably as any previously considered. The IESG
> >>>>> chair is
> >>>>> responsible for notifying the IETF Executive director of the
> >>>>> vacancy and
> >>>>> who in turn is responsible for asking the Nomcom select the
> >>>>> replacement.
> >>>>> The Nomcom is explicitly barred from proceeding without an explicit
> >>>>> request
> >>>>> from the IESG chair. The term of the nominee shall be for the
> >>>>> remainder of
> >>>>> the term of the vacated position."
> >
> >
> > The recommended text change was never discussed on the list.
> >
> > The issue surrounding the 'poaching' issue was discussed but the
> > discussion centered on the serialization described in 2727bis-07.
> > However, none of the discussions were about the result of moving  someone
> > from a non open seat on the IESG to fill an IAB slot and thus  having to
> > fill an unannounced IESG slot.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > Does the document need to be explicit about treating the replacement of
> > an IESG member in an non open chair differently the the replacement of
> > an IAB member in a non open seat?
> >
> > Do full mid term replacement rules, including public announcement apply
> > to this case?
>
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
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